Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 193 of the IA Cast. With me today, we have a good group of folks. We have Angie Fisher back with us. Hey, Angie.

Hey. Good to be here.

Yeah, it's good to have you. We have Michael Babcock.

Starting to feel a little crowded in here, Michael.

We have Marty SoBo.

Hey, y'all.

And we have Lyn Snyder.

Hey, everybody. My neighbors are having a party, so if I'm absent for a bit, it's because I went over and asked them to cook me a slab of beef.

There you go. Food is always a good thing. It always makes me happy. There are so many times where I'm on a call with one of these guys, oh, our food delivery is here. Got to go.

Yeah, that's a regular thing. Yep.

DoorDash and diet. Dr. Pepper. The two DS.

There you go. Doordashers present.

So we have a pretty packed episode. We were off for a week because I was out at the American Council of the Blind of Texas Conference. It was a great conference. Taylor and I were there, met a lot of folks and talked a lot about way around and got to tell people about Vo Starter and Vo Starter Weekly. People love that. Great downloads on the app. 2.9 thousand or something like that already. Fantastic. Yeah, it's very exciting. We have some exciting news, and we'll go more into detail on this on Thursday's Unmute Presents episode. But we want to kind of give a sneak peek here and that know, we've been talking with Michael and Marty every time they're here and kind of going through what's been up on the different Unmute episodes throughout the week, which we're going to do in just a moment. But first, I want to announce to everybody that the Iacast network is expanding. Yes, we are expanding, and we're getting new content and new shows thanks to us joining with Unmute Presents. So on the same podcast network where you could get hands on safety, you could get programmatic, you can get all these other shows, you will get all of the content from Unmute Presents. So it's very exciting. We have a full 30 minutes episode explaining all of that coming out on Thursday, so it's very exciting. It's a good conversation between me, Marty, and Michael, so check that out when it comes out. And Marty or Michael, is there anything you guys want to add to that or talk about what's been going on in the last week of Unmute?

Yeah, we just been working tons behind the scenes and with you, Michael D, to kind of bring us all together and put us under one roof, and we're super excited to move forward all kind of as one cohesive team. And there's a lot of other things coming, so stay tuned.

I'm going to put Lyn on the spot because she's part of the content that we've published with under the Unmute umbrella and now part of the Iacast podcast network. Lyn, do you want to give people a brief overview of the things you talked about on this Week's Friday Find for September 1?

Sure. We started out by talking about some good news about a braille bug that has been squashed, thank goodness, in the betas of iOS 17. So now, those of us who use braille displays, there were apparently several bugs that were addressed in the beta, and there was a lot of concern that they wouldn't be. But the good news is that, yeah, we can get excited about iOS 17 as well now. And we talked about the changes in social media, where people are feeling like they want to go out on their own because they're feeling like social media is more media than social. And so people are leaving some of the big platforms and going to things like Discord and some of these other places where they can really have more control over the community that they are surrounded with. Like, you have instagram that's everything is polished and beautiful and curated, and people are wanting more cozy, comfortable community atmospheres. So they're leaving some of the platforms that the traditional platforms and going to others. We were talking about a headband that has been developed for blind folks, and I'm trying to say this with a straight face because I think it's kind of funny if you're swimming. So when you're swimming as a blind person, especially like in a crowded public pool or some other sort of space where, God forbid, you should accidentally run into someone, or as the article says, if you have trouble staying in your own lane, which I do, even on dry land, I do. So I've been told to stay in my own lane, and I don't do well with that. But anyway, this band, it has this weird ultrasonic technology or vibration feedback type thing with cameras on it that scans the bottom of the pool and somehow gives you feedback. It has two things on the side of your head that I guess vibrate when you're about ready to smack into the side of the pool or something. I don't know. But it's pretty silly as far as but, you know, somebody might like it. And if somebody ever uses it, I hope they do a review of it. Maybe Marty can do a review of that.

Oh, boy, that's a good idea.

Anyway, and then we ended with robotic canines. So Google is working on a robotic doll, and I don't know if any of you would like to have a robotic dog as opposed to a guide dog, but it's interesting to think about.

For me would be, yes.

I want one. Just because I think it's just fascinating.

As a guide dog user, I want to try one. I would do it. I want to see what it's like.

Yeah. And they say that it learns things that surprise my dog just looked at.

Me, up at me like, Why?

He did.

He probably why, but I'm cute and I love you.

How much time you'll save by not needing to take it out.

Take it out room.

It apparently you do have to train it, and it has to train you because you have to speak to it in a way that understands. But, I mean, let's face it, our real canines train us, too, right? They teach us where they want to be rubbed up behind their ears and on their belly and what kind of dog treats they like best.

I'm really glad that we had a chance to talk about this, because this could be a whole topic in itself, and we may do this one day. Like, would you have a robotic guide dog? And why? And there's people that would vehemently say no, but there's others that disagree. And so I think it's worth a conversation on another episode.

But, yeah, I will also say one other thing for Lynn, is stay tuned to the next episode coming out this Friday because there's going to be a really awesome announcement coming. So check that out.

And then on Thursday, we had a chat with Gary and Mia from Echobatics, an interesting looking application that I've been playing with off and on. You'll want to go listen to the history behind that and how they've put that together? On Wednesday's shell phone show, we talked about the ability to reset your blind shell classic two to factory defaults. Sometimes you just need to do that. Michael talked on Vo Starter Weekly about turning voiceover on and off. So that way well, I guess this one is stopping voiceover. We had the ACB community replay on Tuesday, and then we also had technically working 23 on Monday. And you can get all that content in the Iacast podcast feed.

Yes, that would be the Iacast network feed.

Iacast network.

Yes.

Thank you, Michael.

They're two different feeds. If you listen to Thursday's episode, you'll learn all about all of that good stuff. But the Iacast network feed, you may get more than one piece of content a day. So it's great stuff. It is a treasure trove, let's call it that. A treasure trove of information in one feed.

You do get more than one piece of content on Wednesdays currently, yes.

Well, we haven't decided when we're going to start season two of Vo Starter Weekly, so it may not be directly after season one ends. So leave people in suspense there for a little bit. Okay, so we have some interesting news that is happening. I like to call this time of year Tech Baseball Playoffs. I don't know if you guys have ever thought about this or if I've told you all before. I like to say the Tech season falls in line with baseball. You start to get announcements in March, and they go all the way through October, right? Especially with Apple, except for this year. Apple kind of had an exception this year, I guess winter training instead of spring training with the new Macs. But typically they announce in March and they go and have announcements through October. Well, we're getting to the playoffs because baseball kind of follows the same thing March through October for the so we're kind of getting into that this year, the playoffs, getting to the World Series, and typically it's Apple and Google always is, always has been Apple, Google, and I guess Samsung in times. But we have a lot of announcements that have been either confirmed or rumored to be in September and October. So let's go through those. We do know a confirmed iPhone 15 event, september twelveTH, they should have done it September 15, that would have been like so fitting. Oh yeah, but it is the twelveTH and I'm hearing maybe new AirPods cases or USBC things, USBC on iPhones, all kinds of new Titanium iPhones, cool stuff. I'm really excited about it.

I think this is going to be the year of USB C, from what I understand. Of course we don't know this till they actually make the announcement, but at the same time that they're announcing the new phones, they're supposedly announcing in some sort of way, new AirPods, I think AirPods pro with a USBC port and getting rid of the Lightning. So if you got a new phone and new AirPods, you'd have one cable to rule them all, one USBC cable.

And I don't know that they're coming out with new AirPods. I think they're going to come out with a new case that you can.

Buy, which won't even do anything. It's just going to have a USBC port. It's going to be the same, I think.

Yeah, and that's fine. Now if we get AirPods four with USBC, I might have that would be awesome.

Yeah, that would be amazing. I'm just happy that there's USBC it's time. I've been dragging around Lightning cables for this and that for a while now, even though I use wireless charging for most of my stuff anymore. Sorry, it just got a lot worse out here.

So there's been rumors. That one thing that's concerned me, and I don't think that this is going to be an issue. Everybody thinks that Apple's going to add a USB C connector or thing or cable that's going to limit the speeds to the same as Lightning. I just don't see them doing why? Why would they do that?

Why would they do that? It doesn't make any sense to but.

Well, there's a couple of things. First of all, they just came out with brand new two actually headphones and earbuds through the Beats by Dre and that's actually owned by Apple and they have USB C. So if they're putting USB C in those things, I think they're going to start putting USB C in their own actual Apple branded products. But they want to stay consistent. I'm sure, you know, a lot of people like USB C and I'm sure that they like the other products that they own, but they also want their own products to be on par. Secondly, I think that there's other countries that are requiring them to be USB C because in those countries they're requiring everyone to be USB C. So they're trying to make everyone equivalent across. And I don't think that Apple's going to spend a whole bunch of money to manufacture one thing for one country and a bunch of different things for other countries. So I think that's a big part of it as well. They're kind of getting forced into doing it, I think.

Yeah, but there is rumors that they're going to use the connector, they're going.

To throttle the USBC connector, throttle it or cable.

Yeah, but what does that mean exactly?

I've heard another rumor that they're going to charge you extra. Yeah, the data part of it is going to be Lightning speed rather than USBC, and then you can pay extra to buy a faster cable, which seems stupid to me.

I don't know why they do that. I don't know why they do that.

I don't like it.

I really hope that buy another cable though. Then why couldn't you just buy a cable, for example, from a third party company?

Right, use anchor cable.

Yeah, exactly.

I was just going to say, does Apple actually make money on cables?

Yes, they do, because currently Lightning, they're.

Going to be braided though. There's a rumor that we're going to get braided cables with the iPhones.

Right, but let me answer Lyn's question for a second. The reason why they're hesitating so much on changing the Lightning is because they own the patent on that. And if you want to hit a certified Lightning cable, you've got to pay.

Yeah.

As soon as they get rid of that and they go USB C, they're a standard port that's the same across the board. And they can't make that money because the USB C is like a standard. Right. So they're no longer going to have to pay Apple to create a certified Lightning type of a cable.

Right.

So Apple technically could be losing money now that they're not charging for this know to be able to be Lightning.

Certified MFI would I want to see.

How they handle devices as well, like USBC devices.

That's what I was I knew most.

Of my charging via MagSafe anyway. So lightning versus USBC.

Yes.

Isn't going to matter so much for me as far as that goes.

Yeah, so it's very interesting. We'll have to see, but we've got a lot more to go through, so let's keep moving. We will have probably a whole Apple event predictions episode as we normally do, and so we'll talk about all of that then. But we also have heard that there will be an Amazon event for September 20, I believe, and they're supposed to talk about AI and new devices there. So that will be interesting.

Interesting.

And then I believe Microsoft's event is the 21st and they're supposed to talk about AI and Surface. Really excited about that.

Yeah, that'll be interesting to see. I'm kind of curious, the tablets, what they're going to come out with, like what kind of upgrades are going to make to them.

And then I believe in is it October 13? Is the Google event for the Pixel.

4Th, 4th October 4?

Is it me or does it seem like they just came out with seven.

Or that was less? The Pixel event is the 4 October this year?

It doesn't seem like it's been a year already.

So if you're not part of the Iacast Plus feed, you might want to be part of it because we will be doing event episodes for each of these and putting them, the recordings in the Iacast Plus section. So as little as $3, I believe you can become a member and get these great shows. We will be putting them on the radio, so if you catch them the day of, you will be able to see them, but after that they'll be in the Iacast Plus feed. So good stuff. All right, so moving right along, when Lynn was talking about social media, it reminded me that there is a development there and that is now threads is now on the web. You no longer have to use the mobile app to access Threads. And from what I could tell, it's pretty usable with Voiceover on the Mac. So I would be curious if people give it a try and let me know on different platforms your experience because I think it might be I like it better on the web than on the phone.

I do too.

There is no oh, you have?

Yeah.

Oh, well, I do. I need to follow you there then. It's pretty neat. I check it very even frequently.

I do too. It's a Facebook thing, and I'm not a big Facebook fan, so the Meta thing just kind of well, you know.

The reason why I like Threads is a lot of the YouTube personalities that I follow, like on X are on Places are there and they post.

So I was surprised at the tech presence that tends to be there, actually.

And so once Threads gets Activity Pub, I will ditch my Threads account and I will take all of those people and follow them on Mastodon. On Mastodon. And that will be amazing. I'm so excited about it. Now, one thing that's my plan as well, one thing you do need to consider, though, is a lot of Mastodon instances will be blocking Threads, right? So if you are on one of those instances and you want to follow Threads people, you have two options. You can talk to your admin and see if they will unblock it, undefederate it.

Is that a word did you just say undefederate?

Yes, undies. We got to watch undies.

Undefederate.

Looper number two, guys.

Oh, boy, here we go again.

We had Marty's thing from earlier.

We had many outtakes on the show and so this has been good. But we're keeping this in.

We're keeping this one in.

Yeah. So it happens. Undie Federation happens. Anyway.

Oh, my gosh.

See what you came back to, Angie.

This is what you get on a holiday weekend.

Federation song edition. I'm done.

So, yeah, holiday weekend, IA cast.

And.

No one's drinking here yet.

Right.

Doing the undie Federation.

We might be more polished. No, we might be more polished and collected if we do drink.

Because we do drink.

Cautious.

Right.

Okay, let's move on. Man, this feels like old times. We haven't had a laughing part of an episode like this in a while.

Yeah, it's a slow news day, as they say.

Well, there's been a lot going on, actually. Yeah, that's what it is. But this is really good tech news. Like, the presentation stuff is going to be so much fun. Just all the news and all the events. New devices, spend your money.

So because if they do take Threads and add it back to their servers, that might be one thing, but also you would have to change servers if they refuse to do that. And I really feel like that's kind of a disservice, but I understand a lot of people just don't like Meta.

Yeah, didn't they say that? I think they were talking about how initially they had tons of downloads and then a lot of people signed up and then the user stats showed that it was kind of dropping off. After a while. It was the new thing. Right. Everybody wanted to get an account, and then it seemed like a lot of people sort of just dropped off and didn't use it. But I'm not so sure. I mean, it is summertime. It is like where people are out more. What makes Threads stand out as a social media platform? What makes it inviting?

Yeah, it's shiny. Accessibility wise, it has problems. One thing that I do like about Threads on Android is on tablets, it looks great. There is no iPad version of Threads. It's just a part of the screen phone app. So it just depends on how you use it. I am wondering, though, if I could go on the iPad and go to the Threads website if it would say you need to have the app or try it. But on Android, if you're on an Android tablet, it will just blow up the phone app to be full screen, which is better than a small little app on the screen.

Yeah. Phone sized app on a tablet size screen, which is awkward.

Yes.

And clunky and annoying to use.

Yeah.

I wonder what Meta had in mind when they created Threads. I mean, what was their they wanted to kill twitter.

That's the point. They were trying to basically take down Twitter.

They wanted to build a text based social media platform that was similar to can. I don't think it will kill Would. I don't think they expected it to kill Twitter, but they thought, hey, we can leverage Instagram, and it is clearly an Instagram app. It is not made by the Facebook team. It's not made by the WhatsApp team? It's made by the Instagram team. Guess what other app doesn't have iPad app?

Instagram.

Instagram.

Do you think it ever will? Or you think they don't want it to? It's a phone only.

I think that they just don't want to put forth the resources to do it. So it's a shame. I like apps that are on iPad because I can just use my smart keyboard with my trackpad and just move around pretty quickly compared to some apps. And the other problem I have with Threads is there's no accessibility features. I can't change to dark mode. If I'm on light mode, I can't change text size. I can't do a lot of things. So I'm there because people are there, and I think that's why everybody else is there.

Yes. I think in the first week, they had like 60 million or something like that. Right away.

I'm so excited that I was wasn't.

There a point when people were actually deleting their accounts or a period of time when they just stopped? I don't know if it was that they were just not using it or that they actually were. I heard a bit of both.

I was excited that I was in the first 500,000 users of Threads. Nice to sign up.

Yeah, that is something too.

Out of 100 million. When I heard it was released, I was at the NFB conference and I heard it was released and I picked up my phone and I logged in. I'm like, oh, I'm in the first 500,000. Sweet.

Crazy.

So, all that to say, things are changing. I'm just waiting for activity pub with Threads. And I will be very happy, very happy person. So let's move on to our main topic for the day, because I think this is kind of big. And on the Iacast, in the past, we've always talked about do we need specialist, or I guess Double tap calls them specialist devices. We call them assistive technology devices, or like regular at devices. Or should we as a group move more towards the smartphones? Android iPhone. And I believe that for so long it was you need to move towards a touch screen or else. And now we have these devices like the Blind Shell Classic Two, and the is it Capsis? Am I saying that name right?

That new smartphone, that the Smart Vision three.

Yes. I believe the company is called Capsis. Yes.

Out of France.

Yes. And both of those are running a derivative of Android, and they're different. And I've gotten to see The Blind Show Classic Two, which is kind of a candy bar phone with buttons, no touch screen. It's running an earlier version of Android, and it has its own app catalog that you can download. The other one is the Smart Vision Three, which has both touch screens and tactile buttons. I have not seen this device. I've only seen pictures, and it's gotten some fair amount of publicity in the US through mainstream tech and about it helping the blind and visually impaired. Michael, as a totally blind user, you've tried both of those devices, and do you want to expand on any of those things or talk about them in detail?

So recording the Shellphone Show, which is a weekly how to do something on the Blind Shell Classic Two, have become very familiar with the Blind shell, and since we sell it at at guys, I provide a lot of support with it. I have also used the CAPSI Smart Vision Three and between the two devices, and Blindshell has not paid me for this endorsement. I prefer the Blind Shell Classic Two mainly because it's a predictable interface that people know how to navigate and know what to expect in the interface. That does come with the con of you being limited to the applications that's been vetted on the Blind Shell Classic Two. And trust me, the blind shell classic two is not perfect. As I said on Talking Points the other day, right now you can navigate an edit field by character or word, but you cannot navigate an edit field by line or paragraph. And that's something that I really wish you could do. However, when it comes to the CAPSI Smart Vision Three, you do get the flexibility of installing anything that's available in the Play Store. You do get the flexibility of customizing it, but you do also lose that consistency. Now you get the best of both worlds because you get a touch screen and a keypad. So if you know that the OK button or the Save button is in the bottom right hand corner and you are spatially aware, you can just tap down there and hit the OK button once, focus is there, or double tap the screen like you would with any other touch device.

Yeah, so I guess that's kind of my question. Do you think that there's a place for both, or do you think that The Blind Show Classic I? Do you do you think there's a place for both?

Yeah, sure.

Absolutely.

There are people who aren't comfortable with touch screens, especially if you have even elderly people who have Macular generation. And some people just like buttons, they just prefer the button interface to navigating a touch screen. It intimidates some people. So even if you just use the buttons and the arrows and that kind of thing to work them up to getting used to a touch screen, I definitely feel like there's tech is about preference and it's about choice, using what works for you, right?

Yeah.

Do you know how many people out there want to just be able to make a call? I mean, especially if you're someone who has recently lost your vision. A lot of people feel overwhelmed and think it's very daunting to go to this piece of glass that you have to figure out how to use gestures and double click and do all these things. They don't want to do all that. They still just want to make a phone call they don't need.

They're overwhelmed by being by losing their vision, by going blind. And then you add this extra layer of technology on top of it, it just makes the whole experience a lot more stressful.

Exactly.

Yeah, you're right.

Exactly. And besides that, there's other things. A lot of people, they lose feeling in their hands and they can't really feel what's going on on the screen. So by having something tactile, that's going to help them at least be able to feel a little bit. And honestly, some people, especially people who maybe are up there in age, they don't need all of this other stuff. They just want to be able to make a phone call, really, and answer the phone and that's it.

Yeah. I would say that for young people, you really do want them to be like kids, for example. You want them to be on mainstream technology as much as possible because you want them to be able to use the technology that they're going to see in their workplaces or their schools. Or a lot of kids, especially, they want to use the same technology their friends are using. But I think when it comes to the older people, especially but not just older people, like you said, people that.

Have there are a lot of people that are our contemporaries who just prefer buttons. It's just a process.

Again, my mom, she is elderly and I'm telling you right now, she's doing great. She's 92 and I give her a.

Whole lot of credit.

She wants to use technology, she really does. She's not somebody that says, I don't know, I can't deal with this stuff, or whatever. But she now, I think, is really starting to have trouble with the touch screen. She seems to touch things the wrong way or accidentally or whatever. Sure, yeah.

If you have tremors in your hands or there's any number of things that could or some people just don't register. Like they think they're tapping something once with one finger, but some other part of their hand is touching the screen and it's registering as a double tap or a double touch.

And also, I think that especially, like in my mom's case, but other elderly folks that I've worked with, they need things to be kept super simple. Not because they're stupid, but because cognitively they can't handle a lot of things on a phone. Like Marty said, there are. Some people that just want to make.

A phone call, that's all overload.

If you're looking at, let's just use the iPhone, for example, and you just only open the phone app. You have to figure out what all the little icons do, whether you want to be on speakerphone or not, whether you want to show the keypad or not. Half the time they don't know, wait, where's the keypad? And then if they have to find the keypad, and there's an address book and the voicemail, I mean, there's so many things just in the phone app. Most people take that stuff for granted because you just do it all the time and it seems easy to you. But someone who does not have the experience on that technology, not only do they have to learn how to understand the technology, but then they have to learn where everything is and how to do it. And then on top of all of that, you add voiceover gestures and all this other stuff.

Even to that. Just think about this. This is bugging me. Okay, iOS 17 is changing the call screen, and that button is still down there in the middle. But what happens if you go too far to the left or too far to the right? You get the other buttons. And so that muscle memory that people have built up over 13 years.

13 years is different now is all different. You have to relearn it all and.

It'S going to mess with people. I don't know that Apple thought about that, but it will. Even though they put it back in the same place, it's still more difficult to hit that in call button visually.

Well, like, like you said, I'm sorry. Go ahead. There's even a difference between the keypad difference, like if you're entering your passcode when you're updating an app versus when you're unlocking your phone, the keypad is in a different place on the screen. And you notice that when you go to use the keypad, it's like, oh, it's up here now. Yeah, it throws you on.

And there is a new feature coming to help with some of those things that what is that? Assistive access, or whatever it's called.

I get a lot of people, honestly, that they have younger people in their family, grandkids or whatever it may be, that say, oh, get a smartphone, get an iPhone, whatever the case is, and half the time they can't even figure out how to answer the phone, especially if you're losing your vision. What is it like? I don't know. I can't figure out how to do it. And even if you tell them, if you're a voiceover user or needing to be a voiceover user, and you say you answer and hang up the phone using a two finger double tap, they can never do it.

Double tap. It's funny. A lot of people just cannot get it.

Hardest thing from a teaching perspective is the multi finger gesture sometimes. And the rotor the rotor is huge.

Yeah, most people forget the rotor. I don't even care the rotor forget it. I don't want anything to do with it.

It's really hard for people to learn.

I wonder.

But then again, on the other side of it, though, I don't want us to be in sort of a technology ghetto. I don't want us to be walled off from everybody else. It's really important that we don't I think at my age, I consider myself, I guess middle aged, but I want to be on the tech that everybody else is on just because me too. That's important to me. And also it has so much to offer me, having the mainstream tech. But I think that there comes a point where some people I think if your technology is not doing what you need it to do for you, for whatever reason, you should find a technology that is.

And I think the Smart Vision Three, I've heard that there's some traction in the cited community for that device because it does have both the tactile buttons and the touch screen. But my next question to you guys is the blind shell just is one thing. It is buttons. You have that consistency of buttons. Do you guys think that having both buttons and a touch screen on the Smart Vision Three will confuse people? Or will that just strengthen what they can do because they have both options?

I think it's going to be a Catch 22 because in one hand, yeah, some people like having the ability to be able to have a touch screen and have a tactile buttons there. But I also think the opposite of that is it can be confusing. You could be saying, I only want to do the tactile part of it. I don't want anything to do with the touch screen. But if you forget that you all of a sudden hit something which you don't know what you hit, you activated something which you don't know how to get out of. So it arises other kind of issues and of course, everyone's individual. I say it's a Catch 22, really. Some they want both and some they don't.

Unless it's a part of the way.

That the touch screen can't access are the arrows of the touch via buttons.

Right. Or I was thinking if you had that kind of a phone where you had the touch thing and the buttons, if there was a way you could disable, say disable the touch screen. But then again, another thing to think about is if the phone is too much different, it's sometimes hard for sighted people to help you because they don't know what the heck to do either. So that's another thing to consider.

And that's a good point.

The stores say you buy one of these phones and you go into a store like a Verizon. I don't want to pick on any companies, but we know that sometimes mainstream stores are not the best when it comes to helping us with technology. That's different. So I think you have to really I like the way that, say, Marty and Michael, where you have that phone, but you have the support that knows how to use it. So if you have a problem, you don't have to call Sprint or whoever it is, because I have a feeling they're just not going to know how to help you. And that's just another thing to think about.

This is my biggest suggestion, really, in this particular situation. Whoever's helping the person, right, sit down and listen to their needs, what they want and what they don't want. It's about their needs and what they need and what they want or don't want. Not about yourself. Right. So even though you think you may want the latest and greatest iPhone because it does everything under the sun and it's awesome for you, doesn't necessarily mean that it's awesome for somebody else. So just listen to what the person wants to do, needs to do, what's going to be successful for them, because if it's not, it's just going to be miserable for everyone.

And I have an interesting quick story to tell about that particular thing. I have a friend who has a mantis right now braille display, and she just is having one problem after another with it. And she said that she used not a braille and speak, but one of those where the six dot braille displays. Right. I'm trying to think which one? Well, her family members said that she looked funny using it. Yes.

Wow.

So her family members got her a mantis.

Oh, my God.

And she is just not doing well with it. And they said when sighted people would watch her, they would say, oh, that just looks not right. That just doesn't look and she was more comfortable with using the six dot braille thing or the eight dot braille keyboard instead of the mantis. The mantis, she says, is just too much for her. She just doesn't like the way that it is. And here a group of sighted people were looking at her and saying, gosh.

This doesn't look that's ridiculous. Man yeah. Well, that's a perfect example right there.

Of someone doing what they want and not listening to the person and what their needs are. If they were successful with what they had before the new device, and they were happy and successful doing what it is they needed to do, then leave it at that. Don't change it up just because you think they need to change it up.

It's not their thing. It's the person doing using the device. Wow. That has nothing to do with what.

You think looks better.

Yeah, that would infuriate me.

I mean, my thought is there's always some things there like don't go into a meeting with an Orbit Reader 20. Just don't do it playing cards.

It sounds like you're riding a bike.

Bicycle cards, kind of, yeah.

And the spokes.

There's just some things you just don't do, like as a business person. But if you're out and about at home doing things that are not okay, there's one exception to using braille. And this is just really kind of bugs me, is when and I know a lot of people do this that are blind. And I totally understand that this is your preferred way of using your device, but some people have said they like touch ID because they can use their phone while it's still in their pocket. Don't do that. Don't do that. You don't know what people are doing with their hands in their pocket. Yes, here we go again. Yes, I know it sounds silly and kind of like, Here we go. But no, it's serious. You just don't know. People can perceive that as anything or threatening these days or anything. There are some things that you just need to realize are socially inadequate and not something you should do.

That's interesting because I never thought about that. And I always use my phone in my pocket. But I don't know that I do that in public, though. But I am somebody that does that, that uses my phone in my pocket, because a lot of times I'll be doing something and I'll just do that just because I didn't want to hold my phone in my hand. But that's a good thing. I mean, that's something interesting that you say. Something I've never thought about.

What I used to do, or used to usually do, is if you have to do that, and if you have a Braille display, if you're doing that kind of thing, just put your phone in the pocket, zipper pocket on your case or something.

And there are people that use I mean, there are people that use the iPhone in a Slinger and they'll just wear their phone and walk around with it.

Yes, I want one of those. I totally want an iPhone.

Yeah, the Slingers are pretty neat, and I got to see one, and they're pretty cool over the weekend at the conference. They're really.

The video, like a point of viewing.

Yeah, and good for IRA, all kinds of things. And at guys sells them, they have two, the Slinger and Slinger Slim. Yeah. So there's so many ways there. But going back to the topic at hand, because I want to really talk about this, I feel like it just depends on what the person needs. And we've always said this in the past, if you were looking at specialist devices, like, because we've talked about the Victor Reader stream and why would you have a Victor Reader or a Sense Player or others instead of an iPhone? Right. But I think as people get older, because we have a larger group of people that are getting older in the country at least, and I'm sure around the world, people need those other devices with those tactile buttons because yes, here's something that I think we don't think about as tech users, but I think that we should mention. When the iPhone and iPad and Android phones first came out, apps were relatively simple. Have you all thought about that? They were relatively simple.

It was literally like everything you needed was on one screen. There weren't multiple menus layers deep. It was just all right there. Yes.

You didn't have to be an advanced computer user to use an iPhone. And now you kind of do. You have to have a lot of understanding of these apps to use them.

There's an iPhone interface and kind of for apps and an Android interface, and you have to understand both in order to navigate them quickly and efficiently.

Right.

People don't realize this, but you think about how powerful something like an iPhone is. There's a lot of people out there that that's all they have. They don't have another computer or anything else they do with their whole life, everything.

Just a lot of people don't use a regular computer now. They just don't do it. They don't need to.

I'm sort of that way. I would say about 90% of what I do is on my iPhone.

Yeah. I use my phone for everything, pretty much, or as much as I can.

My tech to move with me. So that's why I like it.

Totally.

And that's going to be a topic for another time, another show hint about desktops and laptops where they're useful.

Audio editing, video editing, heavy lifting.

Yeah, so many things. I think that the blind shell, classic two, it's for a good user base. I don't know exactly where I feel like the what's that thing called? The smart vision three.

Smart vision.

Yeah, the smart vision. Three. I feel like it kind of has that it's a middle of the road. Right. So if you need the updated stuff, you can get that. But if you don't need all the apps, all the current things, then the blind shell is good. And I think people just really need to get that informed choice.

What worries me, though, about those devices versus mainstream technology also comes down to how long are they because we all know sometimes how fly by night some of these companies can be. So how long are they going to exist?

Yeah, security updates. That would be my thing is sometimes if you don't update your operating system, you'll stop getting security updates.

With Android, you really need those security updates.

They're important with everything, really. Right?

Totally.

You know, Apple has come out with some emergency updates for things. They've the one from France.

Support is kind of a huge thing, too.

Yeah, the one from France. What carriers are they going to be on in the United States?

But they're both just GSM, aren't they?

Yeah. Right now they're officially supported on T Mobile. And the other question that I thought you were going to ask Lyn is what version of Android it is based on the Smart Vision Three is based on Android Eleven.

And then the blind shell is supported the carriers for it, t Mobile, right, t Mobile.

Okay.

Well, actually they're on T Mobile, but they're also on the federal program. If you fit the need. And I think you have to go through a process, but you can get it through that federal program if you're only making a certain amount of money or maybe you're on Social Security disability or something like that. They do have that which they talked about, I don't know, maybe a month or two ago now. So that's something to look into if that's something that fits into your realm and you can qualify for that.

Yeah. So Blindshell USA is connected with Easy Wireless. Who is administrating the Affordable Connectivity Program? So if you're familiar with ACP, then it gives you $30 off of your cell phone service, which is the cost of the cell phone service. But that's still backbone on the T Mobile network. So it's only officially supported on T Mobile.

So Michael, you've played with both. Is there any drawbacks that you see to somebody getting one over the other, or advantages or just anything you'd like to kind of really basically give a know?

Yeah, I have a perfect example, and I'll keep it short because I know we are getting a little long on time. I have a customer who her condo recently changed to an app based authentication for the door to get into her condo. And that is available on the Smart Vision Three because you can install apps from the Play Store that is not available on the blind shell because Blindshell reviews the applications to ensure accessibility and compatibility with the application. So I see pros and cons. If all you need is a phone and you don't need a lot of extra features, or you don't need to grow out of what's already available and what may be coming to the blind shell, then that's perfect. Also, another big thing and this is huge in the industry is the blind shell has the community behind it. And I think that's important. Blindshell USA is hosting two calls every week. Well, one every week, one every other week. There's a mailing list out there. I'm producing Shell phone show. You can get the 33 hours of content. Mystic Access has created content based on the tutorial. So there's plenty of options to either get paid assistance, get free assistance, or get community based assistance. I don't see that that much on the Smart Vision Three, and I think that's a market pain point that Capsis has missed out on right now, unfortunately. Well, first of all, I'm not the person to fill that gap. I'm willing to help anyone who's interested in that, but I'm not going to take that on because I have committed to the blind shell. It is a big seller that we have with at guys. So I kind of have priority commitment to blind shell because that's where my attention is. But I think that if you need community support and you don't think you're going to need these advanced applications, look at the blind shell. It's a great phone. I really like it. It does have its shortcomings. But as was brought up on a blind shell call called Talking Points recently, gentlemen on there wanted an app. App wasn't available, so he just went to the web browser and got the information from the web browser. And I think that's something people forget about. Yeah, there might not be an app, but does there have to always be an app?

So you have the best of both worlds because you have the walled garden, if that's what you want. But if you need to go outside of that walled garden, you do have that ability as well.

So you can just use the web browser and you just interact with the web page, like the Lyft app. And the Lyft web page for mobile is very similar.

Really interesting.

Lyft has an M Lyft.com or M Uber.com.

One thing you do want to keep in mind though, is there are and this was kind of brought up with the Sense player as well. These devices are running Android, but they do not have Google services. Yes, right. The Smart Vision Three, I believe does because it has Play Store and the.

Certified the Play services part isn't there for the other stuff.

Right. GPS and navigation features that you would get from Place services, they may have their own equivalent, but the same that you would get with Play services is not there.

Also, you lose that sign in with Google functionality as well, too.

No sign in with Google. But didn't they fix that with signing into Gmail on the yes.

So Gmail's authentication process, and not to mean to get into the weeds a little bit now, but Gmail's authentication process in May of 23 actually changed. You used to be able to go and enable sign in with less secure apps and then get an app specific password under Google security, which is a little bit convoluted for someone who all they want to do is set up their email. Well, you can't do that now. And in order for Blindshell to keep up with what was changing, you now go through and authenticate the Thunderbird application, which is the application that they're using for Mail is the open source Thunderbird app for Android. And once you've authenticated that, then you're able to use it. So changes in technology is causing Blindshell as an organization and a platform to upgrade and update with the times.

Very good to know. And this is one of those things that we don't mind going into the weeds here on the podcast because I feel like our listeners need to kind of know that this information is out there. We'll be here to give it to you.

I would say one other thing, too. If people wonder, why does it take so long to get things on the blind shell, when it comes to that, once they get a particular company on board, they have to work with that company to make an app specifically for the blind shell. So there's a lot of work that goes into it. It's not like just go and download an app and stick it on there. There's more to that in the background. And I think people need to understand that and be a little bit more patient. They are trying to get as many of the most popular things out there onto the blind shell. But it does take time working with the company blind shell, working with the developer, with whichever company they're working with at the time, and get it all sorted out so that it can run specifically on the blind shell. So they are doing that just be a little.

And they really just take the same app that's on Google Play and adapt it for the blind shell. So it's the same app, but if there's any problems, they just make it work. All right, well, I think we've really discussed this quite a bit so people can have a better understanding of these products. I guess my last question about this, do any of you guys plan on making any of these devices your primaries?

No.

Same. They're good to be there, but they know their audience. They're out there to get their audience, and I think that's the important thing. So hopefully we have given some great information to help people make an informed choice on these devices, and that's what we're here for. All right, with all that being said, as we typically do, let's go around and see if people have any picks for this time. And so let's start it off with Michael. What is your pick and where can people find you? Online?

Yeah, so my pick today, I'm going to cheat. I don't think anyone's picked this, but my pick today for some people in the United States is the Humanware NLSE reader. And the reason I'm picking this is because it is a portable 20 cell Braille display that allows you to read books and content, connect it to your WiFi network, download that content and read it, save stuff on an SD card, and more importantly, connect it to your computer. So if you've just wondered, what would it be like to have a Braille display connected to my computer and your library is participating in the Ereader program. Get the ereader so you can experiment with that. It is not a notetaker. So I keep saying ereader. There's no functionality to be able to take notes on the device itself, but I'm really satisfied with the braille, the interface and getting it to work. So NLS ereader based on the humanware Bi 20 X, you can find me on Mastodon Payome payown at Unmute Community and in a lot of your favorite podcast apps.

All right, Marty, how about you? What is your pick and where can people find you online?

I did not do a pick this week. Sorry everyone. I will have a pick for next time. But if you want to catch up with me, you can find me on Macedon. I'm Marty at Unmute Community and you can find me all around on Iacast network as well.

All right, and Lynn, how about you? What's your pick and where can people find you online?

Oh, yes. My pick this week is a pair of headphones and I'm trying to remember the name of them escapes me right now. Sorry about that. They are stereo Sennheiser headphones that you guys were telling me about when we were talking last week.

Ambios.

Ambio Smart. Yay.

I love them people. Oh my gosh. It was exactly what I wanted. So they're stereo. These are particularly lightning. So if you have a lightning port on your phone, of course that's going to be changing soon if you get a new phone. But there is an anchor adapter they say you can get that actually goes from the Lightning port to the USBC. But the thing is, these headphones are stereo. They have stereo mics on them. So you have a mic on each earpiece. So on each side of your head you have a mic. And what you can do is you can record in stereo with this mic and you can put your phone in your pocket or you can put your phone down. Well, not down really, because there are stereo mics on the iPhone. But I like these because you don't have to have your hands on the mics or on the phone so that your voiceover is coming through and all this. So I just love these things. And they're selling on Amazon, I think there aren't many left. They're not being made anymore. But I still love them. And ambio smart from Senheiser. If you want stereo recording, they're pretty cool. And where you can find me? Well, I don't know where I am right now, but right now, eventually I will get a really cool email address on the new network set up. But for now you can just write to Caneprints. Like footprints. Only [email protected].

Fantastic. I love those headphones. I still have my first pair.

Me too.

They've never shorted out yet.

Nice.

But they are starting to fray at part one of the end. So that's kind of yeah.

And the problem is they have that heavy that's the unfortunate. They do have like a heavy remote control thingy and I think when you have stuff like that, it sort of pulls that cable a little bit.

Yeah. But they're still worth it. They're so great.

Did you I was going to say if you haven't yet, Lynn, go download the app. There is an app.

I did.

And then you can configure what the buttons do on that box.

Yeah. And they have voice prompts, so that is so awesome.

Lyn, have you tried the amplify level for transparent mode?

No, I haven't done that.

It is amazing. It is probably as good as the AirPods version of the same thing.

Oh, okay. Well, I will definitely wear those and.

Hear what's in your environment. It is fantastic.

And you can hear really far away, too. It's amazing.

All right, Angie, how about you? What is your pick for this week and where can people find you online?

My pick for this week is Be My AI. If we haven't done that yet. Has anyone done that yet?

Nope. You're good.

Be my AI. It's a feature of Be My Eyes, and it describes pictures, and it does a really good job. So you can take pictures with it and it will describe them in tons of detail for you. You can ask questions about the picture once it describes it to you, and the question and answer part of it presents almost like an Imessage chat with the image at the top. And it's quick, it's super detailed. It's amazing compared to anything else out there that does this type of thing. You can also import pictures into it, into the app, and it's similar. You can ask it questions about your photo. The detail is amazing. It's like being able to flip through your photo album and just have it look at the pictures. I always say that. And I'm sure there are things that gets wrong. That's inevitable. But I'm loving the crap out of this. It's so cool. I've done more with my photos over the last two weeks than I ever have, and it's amazing. I love it.

Now, is that for iPhone and Android.

Or just no, just iPhone. Android is coming later on this year. It's totally an.

The. Our last episode was called Bing My AI.

Oh, yeah.

Have you tried the equivalent with Bing?

Yes, I'd say they're comparable, but I feel like Be My AI gives you a little more information. It's extremely detailed. If you'd like me to for the podcast, I'll do a screen recording and pull the audio off it and give it to you.

That would be fantastic.

And you can put it up here and just insert it into the episode.

Sure, we can do that. And give people an example because Taylor held up a can to being like a can of mixed vegetables. Said it was a pringles.

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess you could figure that. Like potato like potato chips, that is.

Auntie. Where can people find you online?

You can find me online at Tech enthusiast at Dragonscave Space that's my master don handle. And that's pretty much my thing. So there you go.

Okay. And to wrap. US up. As usual, my pick this time is a TV show. Are you surprised? No. I always pick books and TV shows and movies and stuff. Yay. Mine is Invasion season two on Apple TV Plus.

Yes.

The first season was fantastic. Season two is starting out really good. I think episode I finished episode two Wednesday. I'm watching them the day they come out, so I love the show. I can't wait to see what happens. Both that show and foundation are doing huge cliffhangers at the end of each episode. I'm like, I just want to binge it. I just want to see everything now.

I don't want to wait for the next one.

Right. Even though we have these strikes going on, there's some great TV that's out right now, folks. Enjoy it while it's here because we may have some delays on next seasons, but enjoy what's here because it's great. As for where people can find me online, I'm Mike Doeies at Techoplas Social. That's mikedoise at Tech. T-E-C-H-O-P-O-L-I-S social. The best mastodon server out there just saying my opinion. You can email me at mike. Yeah, you should be awesome. You can email me at [email protected] and you can get in touch with the show by emailing [email protected]. This has been another great show. We are rolling towards 200 episodes and again we have a very special surprise at 200. That's the plan. So we need to get on that surprise here pretty soon. I'm really excited about it. So good stuff. All right, it's been a great episode everyone. I want to thank everybody in YouTube that have watched everybody on the radio. There's been quite a few people that have come in and going. We've been podcasting on the radio off and on for about 5 hours now. So it's been a wild day on the radio station. If you do not tune into Iacast Radio, you really should. We do some great shows and there's some edited content on this podcast that will be that was on the radio. So if you're here, you know, and if you aren't here, you will know on Iacast Plus. So I want to thank everybody for being here. Marty, michael, Lynn, angie. You guys have been fantastic. And we'll be back next week. I will be in my new apartment. We'll see how the sound is there. If it's as echoey.

Yeah, there you go.

So get the keys tomorrow. So I'm excited and we'll go from there. So thank you everybody and we will see you next time.

See ya.

Bye.

Have a great week everybody.

Thank you for tuning in to the IA cast. We hope you enjoyed the show and found the conversation to be insightful and informative. If you have any feedback or comments, we'd love to hear from you. Please send us an email at [email protected]. You can also follow us on Twitter at iacast network to stay informed. About new episodes and other updates. Don't forget to check out more great podcasts on the Iacast network iacast Net. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. Don't.